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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
523
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Posted - 2013.11.01 15:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Make it so Uplinks within a certain distance of each other causes an increased spawn time.
This would mean you could spam uplinks in an area but it would take your team longer to spawn in that area. Of course, the increased spawn time will be shown on the spawn screen causing your teammates to look for faster spawns elsewhere.
This system would encourage smarter placing uplinks because otherwise your team will lose spawn mobility and you will get less WPs. |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
527
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 15:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
Skihids wrote:This isn't really required, but it's the least onerous way to discourage very close placement of uplinks.
It's basically a stacking penalty like the others we are familiar with. Two uplinks close together increases the spawn time on each by a small fraction, a third a bit more, and the fourth even more. That would throttle the arrival rate of mercs to just a little under what it would be if you had only the one uplink. The stacking penalty should never make the total time for a squad to spawn than if there was one link as stacking penalties never make adding another module actually hurt your stat. That is, adding another damage modifier doesn't reduce your damage, it just adds only a little bit.
The penalty would come in the form of lowering in the spawn time of a single merc.
This is very reasonable but I'm afraid my suggest would increase spawn time for a squad. If only one merc could use an uplink at a time (as in you can't even select it while someone is spawning on it), then it would be fairly simple to make it so a squad would spawn in the same amount of time on 6 uplinks as it would with 1. However, multiple mercs can spawn on one uplink at a time so average squad time of spawning would go up. |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
531
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 19:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
virgindestroyer7 wrote:If we had the ability to destroy blue uplinks i would agree with this.
People who are unawares of the changes, trolling or just being jerks would totally take advantage of this.. unless you always lock your squad and don't allow randoms in there how else would you prevent this from happening to your squad?
I think we need this ability as well. But this comes at the risk of the reverse of what you said, people trolling by destroying all the uplinks.
I see two ways of handling that
A) You deal reduced damage to your teammate's uplinks
B) They can only be destroyed through melee attacks
This would give use the ability to destroy an uplink while at the same time hopefully making destroying uplinks too tedious for a griefer.
@Django:
What about after pulling out an uplink, all uplinks within the reduced efficacy range appear on the HUD similar to how squad mates appear along with a distance measurement? That way people would know where the conflicting uplink is and how far away they need to get from it. There should also be a warning if it is placed within the reduced efficacy range informing the person who placed the uplink of the increased spawn time. |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
532
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 20:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Unintended consequences/workarounds: placement of only one or two well placed uplinks still allows full speed respawning and still protects the resupply line.
As it should. There is nothing wrong with using uplinks to effectively hold an area. The problem is that after the enemy team has placed so many uplinks your team cannot destroy them fast enough to stem the flow of enemies no matter how well they are handling them. In other words, if you have enough uplinks in an area, you effectively create a spawn hub that is extremely difficult if not impossible to shut down.
Imagine playing a round of domination with objective spawning. |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
533
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 02:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Skihids wrote:
Wait, you JUST said it won't alter the spawn rate! If there is no waiting on an uplink, then the respawn rate of ten uplinks is the same as one. So this proposal won't do what you want.
???
The whole point of the idea was to decrease spawn rate. If you are talking about "It isn't so much the speed of spawn, but the difficulty of preventing their spawning" what I meant was that the problem isn't that the enemy are spawning too fast (in other words the base uplink spawn time is fine), it is that there are too many uplinks to get rid of before more enemies spawn in. Increasing the time it takes to spawn gives the attackers more time to remove the uplinks between enemies spawning in as opposed to a more direct solution of not letting uplinks be placed within a certain distance of each other.
Quote: I have played Domination with objective spawning. The difference is that you can't flux or destroy the letter with an OB.
And if you place enough uplinks (and not put them right on top of each other to prevent fluxes from destroying more than one at a time) you simulate that. And OBs can't hit everything.
Quote: I have also placed numerous uplinks on and around an objective and had the enemy roll my team and destroy every last one of them both with and without an OB. Uplinks won't save an out played team, even on the bridge which is probably the most subject to uplink use.
True, if one team is lopsidedly better than the other, uplinks won't be able to hold off the other team. However, given teams of similar skill, the entrenched team will gain an overwhelming advantage over the attacking team simply because the attacking team has little to no chance of removing all the uplinks in between enemies spawning in. |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
534
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 03:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
SirManBoy wrote:Krom Ganesh wrote:Skihids wrote: I have also placed numerous uplinks on and around an objective and had the enemy roll my team and destroy every last one of them both with and without an OB. Uplinks won't save an out played team, even on the bridge which is probably the most subject to uplink use.
True, if one team is lopsidedly better than the other, uplinks won't be able to hold off the other team. However, given teams of similar skill, the entrenched team will gain an overwhelming advantage over the attacking team simply because the attacking team has little to no chance of removing all the uplinks in between enemies spawning in. Wait a second...you mean to tell me, all other things equal, superior logistical support wins games? My mind is blown. It's as if Dust 514 is trying to be a unique, creative, and complex game where more than pew-pew matters. Why would CCP do such a thing?! I mean, shouldn't all shooters be exactly the same--a showcase for great marksman to kill everyone with lesser weapon skills like fish in a barrel? All of these incredibly meaningful and effective contributions by support players must be removed, CCP! We must maintain the rich tradition of mindless, assault-oriented dominance and this paradigm must never be challenged! It is the only way, the one true path. All praise be to assault players!
I'm not saying that uplinks shouldn't give a tactical advantage. I'm saying that deploying a lot of uplinks gives too much of an advantage.
You can't have a "creative, and complex" game when the only viable strategy given two teams of similar skill is to rush the objective and spam uplinks.
And fyi, I play as a scout, not an assault so the last thing I want to turn this into "a showcase for great marksman to kill everyone with lesser weapon skills like fish in a barrel" |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
670
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 20:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:1) The problem I have with the GÇ£reduce spawn time for stacked uplinksGÇ¥ solution is that people like the one described above donGÇÖt give a sh!t. They are not doing that for strategic reasons, they are farming WP. They will just keep on spamming uplinks all over the place, dropping their militia hives right on top of my ADV/PRO ones all day (or they may do it to awox, too). A stacking penalty wonGÇÖt even cross their minds.
However, increasing spawn time would discourage this behavior as people are less likely to spawn on uplinks that would cause them to wait longer to spawn meaning the spammer would be getting less WPs. Once the spammer realizes they are wasting their time throwing down tons of uplinks, they should either start placing less or find other ways to better farm WPs.
In addition, people who do spam uplinks tend to do it either around a resupply depot (which are not normally near critical areas)... or are playing ambush (but you can always "smart" deploy to avoid long spawn times from spammed uplinks which should discourage spam).
Quote: 2) Similarly the draconian hard caps that have been proposed will end up hurting strategically-minded players like Skihids (or myself) and our teams. I spend at least 30% of each battle running around like a madman trying to place uplinks where they either are or will soon be needed so that my squadmates can concentrate on killing. (Plus another 1 or 2 as fallback position(s) if we get overrun and need a rally point, but I digress). If I can only place 2 uplinks total, then suddenly everyone is going to have to carry them, and most of them have not invested the SP to get good ones nor will or should they invest the time and effort to put them in the best locations. ThatGÇÖs what a logistics player is for! (Or a good scout, IGÇÖd love to run some scout fits but damn they are made of paper and balsa wood.)
If you are referring to limiting the maximum amount of active uplinks per player/team, that is not what I'm suggesting as that would not prevent a team from putting 5+ uplinks in a small area.
Quote: 1) Making a radius for uplinks makes sense. You canGÇÖt drop them within, I dunno, letGÇÖs randomly pick 10-20m of eachother for the sake of argument. The way to implement this would either be: - One of them pops (IGÇÖd vote that the lower tier link does) - The new one sits there dead and maybe activates if the original one is destroyed or otherwise disappears.
Having higher tier uplinks destroy lower tier ones is a bad system. I use the stable std uplinks because they are easy to fit (and my scout needs every cpu/pg it can get). Say I put my uplink in a difficult to reach spot that has a high strategic value. Why should you be able to spawn on my uplink, place your own, and get to reap the benefits of my work? Simply put, uplink tier != value of placed uplink.
The deactivated uplink idea is not bad though.
Quote:2) If you instituted caps, it would have to be done in a way that does not penalize people who actually play logistics GÇ£properlyGÇ¥ (bad term, I know), meaning those who actually think about where they drop this stuff. This way, only those people who take the time and SP to really specialize would have the ability to drop a lot of links. The result would be probably a small decrease in the total number of uplinks dropped but a significant increase in the intelligence of their placement. I've proposed this before: A way to implement this would be making the equivalent of a weapon proficiency skill, but for equipment, so you could have, say, 1 link active total at level 0 proficiency, 2 at level one, and maybe 6 or so at level 5.
Do you mean across all tiers? Then that is a good idea as well though 6 is still quite a lot of uplinks. However, while it is related, it is not the issue I am addressing.
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